https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/the-man-who-pioneered-libraries-and-92631859/

https://podcasts.apple.com/ke/podcast/russell-t-davies/id1450005207?i=1000698585806

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2040953/episodes/17282956-bonus-the-lab-leak-goes-mainstream